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File consists of a recording of Gladys Munnings. Topics of the conversation include TAPE ONE Women's experiences of anonymity: subject's anonymous Ministry of Education pubIications, quoted at length without acknowledgement. Social problem of persons easily, unconsciously taking advantage of resource staff, supportive personalities. Claim of Minister of Education Mr. Wells, in face of public outcry, to represent entire community in Ministry procedures (hence change in Ministry policy to acknowledge contributors, proving his claim); subject's experience that public had been well represented under Robarts in Ministry affairs, without being informed of it. Public ignorance of Ministry of Education's leading role in appointing women to senior positions, reorganizing departments the better to serve changing times. Likelihood of men's successes receiving more and better publicity; women's former acceptance of anonymity since in quiet they contributed most, without expenditure of energy fighting male-oriented society. Motivation to accept position as Inspector of secondary schools (Toronto 1956: though very happy as Windsor school teacher, tempted not to) by reflection on discriminatory sexist rationale (much mooted in 1950s) 'women don't accept leadership opportunities': indication by sympathetic male Ministry superintendant, next candidate on list is male. Painful experience as teacher in 1930s, 1940s, watching excellent women teachers being kept in place, men only appointed to higher positions (the British tradition). Efforts as secondary school inspector to encourage women to apply for higher posts; negative responses based on a) enough work already (at school and at home); b) distaste for required travel, how could she stand travelling she did? (loves it, though requires stamina); c) fear, either of inadequacy to live up to personal ideals of higher offices (in profession to which they were wholeheartedly dedicated), or of unaccustomed, threatening self-concept as leaders; many older women's need of continuous supportive encouragement in roles as potential and actual leaders. Discovery at educational conference that women teachers, once rejected for higher position, never applied again, while men took rejection in stride, applied repeatedly. Interviewer's speculation that if women lose by being molded into attitudes of rejected submission, men lose by being molded into attitudes of aggressive competition, suppressing relaxed gentler natures. Family encouragement as important factor in women acquaintances' rise to prominence; higher education opportunity for any child in 1930s, 1940s, given family support. Working-class parents' strong belief in practical value of education; promise during high school they would support her higher education, mortgage of family home to keep their word. Depression period at Queen's ,academic gown fashion to disguise clothing; attitude college was for work first, that education would lead to employment; 5% teaching employment rate of College of Education graduating class. Greater suffering of unemployed graduates in 1970s, raised during affluent period to affluent expectations; reliance during times of stress on inner resources; importance of personal attention and counselling at all levels of society; distinction between constructive and destructive introspection. // Ethical role of human beings to help others, do personal best with talents given. Motivation of interviewer's teacher's college acquaintances by desire for secure lifestyle; subject's un­ comprehending acquaintance with similar undedicated 'time-saver'. Decent security-seeking motivation of WWII veteran students already supporting families. Expanding role of women during WWI, WWII, in neither period including role as social conscience: influence of wartime pressure, forcing practical advances (e.g. medicine), preventing discussion. Priority of discussion in 1960s, often unproductive for reasons of time-killing, indecision, unwillingness to accept responsibility; interviewer's query, are we degenerating or girding our loins? Indictment of affluent society as cause of sloth (in case of acquaintances, 30-40 years old married women bracket); existence of positive inactivity and simple inertia, requiring crisis to stimulate action. Understanding pity for teenagers. Refutation of theory that society only focuses energy constructively during major crises; acquaintance with many constructive, caring teachers (ability to care as result of upbringing), exceptionally creative social movement of stable late 1950s, early 1960s; subject's development of Association of English Teachers' proposal for high school-touring theatre as example (hardworking, successful application to Treasury Board for financial approval of theatre company plans; company tour of dozens of schools in first few years, requests from schools everywhere; growth of programme, 1963-71,till too many requests from Ministry of Education to handle, reassignment to Ontario Arts Council).Interviewer's recent poor treatment at hands of Ontario Arts Council, subject's suspicion this is result of drastic cuts in provincial budgets; lament that cultural programmes are cut first, seen as 'frills'. Canadian fear of invasion during WWII, teacher emergency training camps, school evacuation drills (1942). Shared living quarters with friend Helen since 1942; previous shared living arrangements, solo lifestyle not seen as concomitant of female careerism. Upbringing on Belleville farm (to age seven); parents' removal to Belleville proper to ensure better education for daughter.// TAPE TWO Receipt of Queen's honours degree in three years (one of two students to achieve sufficiently high standing); enrolment at Ontario College of Education, teaching certificates in EngIish and History, Physical and Health Education. Later return to OCE for guidance counselling certificate, frustrating mandatory enrolment in too low a level. Love of 20 years' teaching work in Windsor; promotion to inspector as the right decision, 'broadening and challenging' work with teachers grateful to discuss problems with experienced inspector. Lack of provincial curriculum guidelines prior to 1960s; requests while teaching to share her study outlines with teachers across the province; subject's efforts to correct this under 'Robarts Plan', collection of teachers to reorganize provincial programmes of study, prepare curriculum guidelines for all subjects in all grades in all streams; interest in diversified occupational programme, establishment of flourishing Nursing Assistant's programme, Dental Assistant's programme. Practical disagreement with change in high school educational philosophy toward provision of generalized not specialized education. Great enjoyment of work as first woman inspector in secondary schools for Ontario Department of Education; initiation of successful provincial heads of department conference programme; initiation of curriculum committees, (motivated by teachers; deeply-felt need) leading to first curriculum guidelines (1961-2) for secondary school teachers. Replacement of general inspectors by subject inspectors (English, Science, etc.) and district inspectors (of principals' administrative problems), carried out by brilliant superintendent; happy coverage of thousands of miles as one of six provincial inspectors. Satisfaction of working with teachers who needed and wanted her. Role encouraging women teachers to accept senior positions; women's refusal of inspector's position on grounds of too much travel; appointment (1974) as special assistant to the Deputy Minister of Education and Adviser on women's affairs, actively promoting women into positions of authority, upgrading status of secretarial workers who had been unofficially charged with executive responsibility. Return swing of pendulum from chaotic liberal interpretation of Living and Learning report to teacher demands on Ministry to provide leadership.//Creation by committee of English core content curriculum guidelines (combination of policy statement and resource materials); problem of teachers themselves requiring extra schooling to teach fundamentals of English grammar; John Stephens' Forum article protesting unjust denigration of today's students. Officially retired status, still working for Ministry on special projects; expectation of post­retirement career in volunteer activities; current committee work for Canadian Federation of University Women, based on work for Marty Memorial Fellowship Committee with Jean Royce. DetaiIs of appointment to specially-created position as Special Assistant to Deputy Minister of Education (Ministry's sustained ability to provide subject with fresh challenges); subject's experience as valuable complement to Deputy Minister's. Membership in Fitness Institute. 'Gap' in appointment of women to Senior Ministry positions, after first introduction of experienced women; dread that in current economic recession, new women wiII not be appointed to replace sizeable group of women now retiring. Tremendous personal satisfaction in career success of actors once employed in subject's 'Theatre Hour Company' (Marilyn, Kenneth Walsh, August Schellenberg). Unique perspective brought by women to working matters, distinctive contribution to society. Subject's article stressing that young men must now be led to understand they are entering a new kind of society, based on sexual equality (if they don't comprehend this, they will have trouble).