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File consists of a recording of Mary Rowland. Topics of the conversation include limited job opportunity for subject as Queen's Commerce graduate, 1928;usual female procedure into teaching, office work; job scarcity for statisticians. Career development: Ottawa Tariff Board position, recommended by Dr. Mackintosh (subject let go without notice after Stock Market crash, change of government); brief employment by Montreal advertising agency; Queen's library work, prompting study at U. of T. Library School (subsequent disappointing salary raise of $2 per week). Approach from Queen's fellow-student Sandy Skelton (Rhodes Scholar; son of O.D.Skelton, Queen's graduate prominent in Dept. of External Affairs), Chief of Research Dept., Bank of Canada, to organise most important financial library in Canada previous to Bank opening (1936). Organisation of library from scratch, 'a young librarian's dream'; appointment as Assistant to the Secretary (Skelton),Royal Commission on Dominion-Provincial Relations; huge Commission programme, enlisting eminent economists from across Canada (notably Drs. Mackintosh, Corry, Deutsch - all Queen's Principals). Subject's original Queen's degree programme, dominant interest in organisations: involvement as Levana Society president, captain of champion intercollegiate women's hockey team. Photographs of Levana executive, hockey team (including H. Laird); interviewer's fascination with changing style of hockey uniforms, short haircuts, 'tube' skates; subject's recent contact with members, still energetic, great travellers. Travel experiences: boat trip to visit German exchange­student (1937); trips abroad after 1958; yearly trips since 1970. Photographic hobby. Shelving of Royal Commission report with advent of WWII; subject's Personnel Dept. position in charge of Bank of Canada female employees. Personnel expansion during WWII: hiring students, housewives, retired persons by the hundred to staff War Savings Certificates Dept., Foreign Exchange Control Board; contrast with previous tight job market; low salaries (not till the end of war did salaries match work). Article on subject, 'Name in the News', Toronto Saturday Night; photo portrait by Karsh. Position as Assistant to Chief of Personnel, in charge of both sexes; reflection on sexual basis, now unacceptable, of previous position in charge of female employees. Recruiting for Bank at Queen's. Cancellation of Foreign Exchange Board, release of married women by Bank after WWII; retention of 200-300 single/needy women; general sentiment that women should make way for men in the post-war job market. Return of married women to paid work in the 1960s, related to 1950s baby boom; fluctuations in teaching job market; new options for women resulting in fewer women training as teachers. Interviewer's comment that today's students cling to studies to avoid facing employment difficulties; subject's comment that students/workers are cushioned now against unemployment as her generation was not. Happy period of personal professional expansion in 1950s; interesting, informative recruiting forays; competition with Civil Service for graduate students. Queen's as a continuing factor in subject's work-1ife;examples of Queen's economic grads snapped up by Ottawa government employers. Subject's father as Kingston banker (her introduction to Commerce); cashiering as almost exclusively female occupation, too routine for male workers. Male secretaries. Earl Maclaughlin (Head of Royal Bank), John Deutsch (Bank of Canada), as Queen's grads who worked from bottom to top. Stenography as women's work.//Job satisfaction hiring people and seeing them improve, fitting people to the right job. Decision to quit, based on change in office atmosphere, employee-employer relationship based on remuneration rather than attachment, loyalty. Mushrooming number of assistants; job mechanization; loss of human contact, stimulus; loss of identity in huge bureaucracy. Queen's as a closeknit organisation despite growth; present-day organisation of students for orientation. Subject's observation that in her day, students had to be serious to put up with boarding­house life for the sake of studies. Recollection of woman student secretly married before graduation (c. 1926), then unheard-of. Student activities as a vital part of university experience. Financial struggle as partial explanation of single status of many of subject's contemporaries (no easy credit, no possibility of wife working); imposition of single status on career-minded women. Unlimited budget as Bank librarian; government papers as core of financial library (any material having reached book form being out of date). Former attitude to equal work for unequal pay: resignation to acknowledged injustice, satisfaction sought in work itself.

File consists of a recording of Caroline Mitchell. Topics of the conversation include Kingston Whig Standard article on subject (May 1978). Subject's golf enthusiasm, acquaintance with Sandra Post, Jacqueline Bourassa. Playing golf in England with enlisted father (WWI), dependence of club on Canadian soldiers for membership. Cataraqui Club membership, 1920; current practice (aet. 75: good for health, bad for morale), swimming exercise at cottage. Subject as former badminton champion; 'dandy' club formed by merger of city and garrison clubs in antique school (Wellington and Gore St.); failure of club after forced sale of building, WWII. Curling activities from 1960. Skiing interest at Queen's. French, English studies, let lapse after graduation; uncertainty of personal ambitions. Study for study's sake customary among women during 1920s; schoolteachers as sole female careerists. Annual formals (Meds, Arts, Science, Science Overflow); coveted tickets to Science formal, site of Science Overflow in present-day City Hall. Cheap, pleasant 'social evenings' sponsored weekly by various Years. Continued single status of many of subject's female contemporaries; Sibyl Maclachlan as notable exception. Subject's indecisive 'chequered career': proprietorship of wool shop prompted by hobby interest, ended by wool rationing during WWII; unspecified war job; book-keeping for real estate office; unspecified work, Alcan; book-keeping for Queen's Women's Residences, 1963-71; retirement, 'the best job there is'. Rooming-house business continued since 1940s: previous conformity with ban on co-ed student housing, recent acceptance of both sexes; acquaintance with students through friends, 'no need to advertise'; job benefits of making friends, keeping active. 'Thrill' of honorary recognition by Cataraqui Golf Club. //Stay in Germany with former rooming couple, side-trips to Paris, Spain. Four years in English girls' school (WWI). Time-honoured Kingston 'roots', residence in grandfather's house since childhood; family background. Lack of formal qualifications for book-keeping work; 'dandy' position at Queen's under Dean Bryce; employment by Mr. Bryce at AIcan. Utter contentment living in Kingston. Enjoyment of work, colleagues, despite poor pay; refusal to take coffee breaks, seen as waste of employer's time; stoic indifference to unequal status as female worker, lack of interest in women's movement. 'Beautiful time' playing sports after graduation, lack of defined ambition; decision not to marry, 'I'm so glad I didn't'. Surprising lack of interest in baseball, football, hockey (despite interest in football team at Queen's). Curling acquaintance with Judge Alice McKeown; lawyer Cooky Cartwright, subject's golf 'protegee'. Sandra Post's first Ontario golf tournament, aet. 11; older members' jealous protestation against junior's age (i.e. skill). Cartwright's advocacy of women golfers' right to wear shorts; subject's disapproval of extremes in golfers' dress codes (e.g. mini-shorts). Abstention from Cataraqui Club parties 'because I haven't got a man to go with'; participation in bridge club. Early pro members of Cataraqui Club: Bob Cunningham, Dick Green. Subject's acceptance of discriminatory fees, timetable restrictions placed on women in golf club; belief that members free to play on weekdays ought not to clutter the course outside business hours. Club election of male and female presidents; usual appointment of male president to club presidency. Male-female championship tournament trophy, seldom won by women (once by subject); subject's 'intense annoyance' with illogical assignation of runner-up award, ungenerous stroke differential, rendering male victory certain, trophy itself meaningless. Cataraqui Club fire, 1973.

File consists of a recording of Mary Alice Murray. Topics of the conversation include hardworking poverty of students enrolled at Queen's to upgrade teaching certificates; 'big effort' of Dept. of Extension students (female teachers and male ministers) to obtain degrees. Procedure of two women from Gr. 13 class, Notre Dame convent, to university (poverty of many, lack of familial support); own notion, derived from instructress, of higher education as responsibility (noblesse oblige). University as road for women to teaching or librarianship only; selection of courses on grounds of pleasure, ability. Value of Latin as mental discipline, foundation of literacy; resurgence in school curricula. Eventual marriage of 90% of female university contemporaries (often to university acquaintances); single status as a woman's 'last choice'. Women's lack of financial motive in attending university, enjoyment of study for its own sake, unselfish ambition, freedom from craving for success. Employment in government income tax office, 1941-57, while living with parents. Deaths of parents; enrolment in Queen's newly-opened law school (surprised by its existence); small number of women law students (12/100 at bar admission, Toronto, 1961); rare status as mature student taking second degree. Positive, sceptical response of several friends, sympathy of income tax boss, 'he approved of all these efforts and went to bat for me.' Bored reaction to income tax work, 'still searching for something'; extensive outside reading. Loss of old friends by the wayside (to marriage etc.), continual necessity of making new ones; early education in independence as only child; affectionate attachment to live-in uncle, distress during law school over his death. Position as sole female graduate of first class of Queen's law school; friendly diversity of class members, parties at subject's home. Generalist nature of Queen's law programme, inability then to specialize. Revulsion against prospect of teaching law; appointment as Secretary, Queen's Faculty of Law; halt to degree at LLB stage. Small registration (85 students, 8 faculty); truth of Dr. Lederman's prophecy subject's job would be an evolving one; enjoyment, satisfaction, of registrarial career. Dedication of Dr. Lederman to Faculty of Law, extensive public relations efforts.// Setting of academic tone of Queen's Faculty of Law by Drs. Corry, Lederman. Importance in life of 'a certain turning outwards', concern for other people; narcissism as self-destruction. Single status as a helpful factor in unstinting professional service; married women's conflicts of interest, strong sense of duty to family, home; dependence of men's success in careers on singleminded freedom from necessity to look after themselves. Levelling off in law school applications, possibility of having reached demand limits for Ontario lawyers. Longlived university attitude to women as mere sexual items, jocular leering over women's applica tions, essays at wit 'We realise you came here for your MRS’; lack of motivation to encourage women to apply. Careful thought given to subject's initial title, 'Secretary of the Law School' (equivalent to current 'Assistant Dean'). Valued personal contact with students as law school Registrar. Value of university where women hold key visible positions, hope that such positions do not 'gravitate back' into hands of men. Inspirational character of Registrar Jean Royce; Royce's invaluable service to faculty and students. Importance of meeting both pure academic and applied career needs of students; value of pure academic liberty to roam through course offerings, sampling disciplines which one may not pursue but which are nonetheless stimulating. Middle-aged woman's fascination with new courses available thirty years after her original studies. Ban Righ Foundation for Continuing University Education (support body for mature female students); warm reception of mature students by Queen's student body; valuable contribution of mature students to university life. Queen's policy of attracting students from across Canada: value in dispelling likeminded sterility, providing graduates with nation-wide network of contacts. Dramatic increase in number of Kingston law firms willing to accept women articling students; lawyers' delight in 'superb' women lawyers. judges' increased acceptance of women lawyers. Logical reasoning as the preserve of female as well as male human beings; irritating expression, 'She thinks like a man.' Disadvantaged position of business women; Sam Zion's Toronto Star advice column; Things My Mother Never Taught Me. Re-education of public tendency to assume any unspecified professional must be a man; continuing small-scale insults to women (e.g. by radio­ broadcasters). Appreciation of women's movement protests (even when strident, objectionable) as sole means of forcing men's attention to problem of unequal status of women.

File consists of a recording of Diane Gordon.

Tape is Blank. Second interviewer is unknown.