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Munnings, Gladys R.

File consists of a recording of Gladys Munnings. Topics of the conversation include TAPE ONE Women's experiences of anonymity: subject's anonymous Ministry of Education pubIications, quoted at length without acknowledgement. Social problem of persons easily, unconsciously taking advantage of resource staff, supportive personalities. Claim of Minister of Education Mr. Wells, in face of public outcry, to represent entire community in Ministry procedures (hence change in Ministry policy to acknowledge contributors, proving his claim); subject's experience that public had been well represented under Robarts in Ministry affairs, without being informed of it. Public ignorance of Ministry of Education's leading role in appointing women to senior positions, reorganizing departments the better to serve changing times. Likelihood of men's successes receiving more and better publicity; women's former acceptance of anonymity since in quiet they contributed most, without expenditure of energy fighting male-oriented society. Motivation to accept position as Inspector of secondary schools (Toronto 1956: though very happy as Windsor school teacher, tempted not to) by reflection on discriminatory sexist rationale (much mooted in 1950s) 'women don't accept leadership opportunities': indication by sympathetic male Ministry superintendant, next candidate on list is male. Painful experience as teacher in 1930s, 1940s, watching excellent women teachers being kept in place, men only appointed to higher positions (the British tradition). Efforts as secondary school inspector to encourage women to apply for higher posts; negative responses based on a) enough work already (at school and at home); b) distaste for required travel, how could she stand travelling she did? (loves it, though requires stamina); c) fear, either of inadequacy to live up to personal ideals of higher offices (in profession to which they were wholeheartedly dedicated), or of unaccustomed, threatening self-concept as leaders; many older women's need of continuous supportive encouragement in roles as potential and actual leaders. Discovery at educational conference that women teachers, once rejected for higher position, never applied again, while men took rejection in stride, applied repeatedly. Interviewer's speculation that if women lose by being molded into attitudes of rejected submission, men lose by being molded into attitudes of aggressive competition, suppressing relaxed gentler natures. Family encouragement as important factor in women acquaintances' rise to prominence; higher education opportunity for any child in 1930s, 1940s, given family support. Working-class parents' strong belief in practical value of education; promise during high school they would support her higher education, mortgage of family home to keep their word. Depression period at Queen's ,academic gown fashion to disguise clothing; attitude college was for work first, that education would lead to employment; 5% teaching employment rate of College of Education graduating class. Greater suffering of unemployed graduates in 1970s, raised during affluent period to affluent expectations; reliance during times of stress on inner resources; importance of personal attention and counselling at all levels of society; distinction between constructive and destructive introspection. // Ethical role of human beings to help others, do personal best with talents given. Motivation of interviewer's teacher's college acquaintances by desire for secure lifestyle; subject's un­ comprehending acquaintance with similar undedicated 'time-saver'. Decent security-seeking motivation of WWII veteran students already supporting families. Expanding role of women during WWI, WWII, in neither period including role as social conscience: influence of wartime pressure, forcing practical advances (e.g. medicine), preventing discussion. Priority of discussion in 1960s, often unproductive for reasons of time-killing, indecision, unwillingness to accept responsibility; interviewer's query, are we degenerating or girding our loins? Indictment of affluent society as cause of sloth (in case of acquaintances, 30-40 years old married women bracket); existence of positive inactivity and simple inertia, requiring crisis to stimulate action. Understanding pity for teenagers. Refutation of theory that society only focuses energy constructively during major crises; acquaintance with many constructive, caring teachers (ability to care as result of upbringing), exceptionally creative social movement of stable late 1950s, early 1960s; subject's development of Association of English Teachers' proposal for high school-touring theatre as example (hardworking, successful application to Treasury Board for financial approval of theatre company plans; company tour of dozens of schools in first few years, requests from schools everywhere; growth of programme, 1963-71,till too many requests from Ministry of Education to handle, reassignment to Ontario Arts Council).Interviewer's recent poor treatment at hands of Ontario Arts Council, subject's suspicion this is result of drastic cuts in provincial budgets; lament that cultural programmes are cut first, seen as 'frills'. Canadian fear of invasion during WWII, teacher emergency training camps, school evacuation drills (1942). Shared living quarters with friend Helen since 1942; previous shared living arrangements, solo lifestyle not seen as concomitant of female careerism. Upbringing on Belleville farm (to age seven); parents' removal to Belleville proper to ensure better education for daughter.// TAPE TWO Receipt of Queen's honours degree in three years (one of two students to achieve sufficiently high standing); enrolment at Ontario College of Education, teaching certificates in EngIish and History, Physical and Health Education. Later return to OCE for guidance counselling certificate, frustrating mandatory enrolment in too low a level. Love of 20 years' teaching work in Windsor; promotion to inspector as the right decision, 'broadening and challenging' work with teachers grateful to discuss problems with experienced inspector. Lack of provincial curriculum guidelines prior to 1960s; requests while teaching to share her study outlines with teachers across the province; subject's efforts to correct this under 'Robarts Plan', collection of teachers to reorganize provincial programmes of study, prepare curriculum guidelines for all subjects in all grades in all streams; interest in diversified occupational programme, establishment of flourishing Nursing Assistant's programme, Dental Assistant's programme. Practical disagreement with change in high school educational philosophy toward provision of generalized not specialized education. Great enjoyment of work as first woman inspector in secondary schools for Ontario Department of Education; initiation of successful provincial heads of department conference programme; initiation of curriculum committees, (motivated by teachers; deeply-felt need) leading to first curriculum guidelines (1961-2) for secondary school teachers. Replacement of general inspectors by subject inspectors (English, Science, etc.) and district inspectors (of principals' administrative problems), carried out by brilliant superintendent; happy coverage of thousands of miles as one of six provincial inspectors. Satisfaction of working with teachers who needed and wanted her. Role encouraging women teachers to accept senior positions; women's refusal of inspector's position on grounds of too much travel; appointment (1974) as special assistant to the Deputy Minister of Education and Adviser on women's affairs, actively promoting women into positions of authority, upgrading status of secretarial workers who had been unofficially charged with executive responsibility. Return swing of pendulum from chaotic liberal interpretation of Living and Learning report to teacher demands on Ministry to provide leadership.//Creation by committee of English core content curriculum guidelines (combination of policy statement and resource materials); problem of teachers themselves requiring extra schooling to teach fundamentals of English grammar; John Stephens' Forum article protesting unjust denigration of today's students. Officially retired status, still working for Ministry on special projects; expectation of post­retirement career in volunteer activities; current committee work for Canadian Federation of University Women, based on work for Marty Memorial Fellowship Committee with Jean Royce. DetaiIs of appointment to specially-created position as Special Assistant to Deputy Minister of Education (Ministry's sustained ability to provide subject with fresh challenges); subject's experience as valuable complement to Deputy Minister's. Membership in Fitness Institute. 'Gap' in appointment of women to Senior Ministry positions, after first introduction of experienced women; dread that in current economic recession, new women wiII not be appointed to replace sizeable group of women now retiring. Tremendous personal satisfaction in career success of actors once employed in subject's 'Theatre Hour Company' (Marilyn, Kenneth Walsh, August Schellenberg). Unique perspective brought by women to working matters, distinctive contribution to society. Subject's article stressing that young men must now be led to understand they are entering a new kind of society, based on sexual equality (if they don't comprehend this, they will have trouble).

Munnings, Gladys

Pitt, Jean, nee McLaughlin

File consists of a recording of Jean Pitt. Topics of the conversation include travel in South America following husband's retirement (1932); surfeit of European travel, desire to witness 'Darwin country', Indian culture of Peru. Contribution of native intractability to present-day social failure. Train ride through Andes mountains; juxtaposition of old agricultural methods with new. Cultural sidelights: Indian habit of working barefoot in cold weather; Indian worship of Catholic god on Sunday, native gods on weekdays; Indian features on Catholic statues donated by natives; Brown Derby Indians, Le Pas. Five-day tour of Galapagos islands. Position as University Women's Club representative to Niagara Falls Local Council of Women (WWII). LCW aim to improve society through agitation for better laws; rejection of women's usual role as petty fund-raisers; regular representations to Cabinet members. LCW membership, skimmed from wide variety of local women's groups. Women's former lamentable devotion to social fund-raising activities, failure to grasp importance of active legislature in effecting democratic change; similar failure of today's citizens to communicate with elected representatives. Position as head of various LCW committees (e.g. Economics Committee). French/German degree at Queen's; liking for languages, belief in multilingualism, support of bilingual immersion courses at public school level (why fuss over what other countries take for granted?). Concern that people are led to socialism by need, not conviction; leaders' responsibility for making a free system work in advance of popular desperation; lack of free speech in Communist countries as a symptom of insecurity. LCW positions as Corresponding Secretary, President. LCW, YWCA Women's Forum study of Rowell-Sirois Report ('Canada's first effort at revising the Constitution'), typical of women's political concern during 1930s. Concensus of University Women's Club on practical categorization of unemployed citizens. Quarrel with post-WWII government measures requiring women to surrender paid jobs; awareness (economic injustice aside) of other avenues of fulfilment. Role of remuneration in building self-confidence, self­respect (interviewer); subject's contention that qualified women will find work, others needn't lapse into sense of victimization. Failure of subject's generation to throw off Depression attitude to role of sexes: tendency to blame women for holding jobs in time of unemployment, to hold mother responsible for children in equal-parenting relationship. WWII position as industrial personnel selector (National Selective Service); Niagara Peninsula as WWII industrial centre of Canada. Laziness factor in 1970s unemployment situation, brought out in all generations by extravagant welfare system; lack of sufficient contrast between working rewards, welfare rewards. Economic problems of high Canadian wage scale, low production rate. Benefit of health insurance programmes, despite problems of administration. Termination (by NSS work) of 10-year participation in Women's Council; University Women's Club membership dropped to accommodate retirement travel, recently resumed. Success of retirement plans; visit to newly independent New Guinea (1975, Queen's Principal Watts aiding in plan of constitution), observation of white-native relations; satisfaction over peaceful race relations (black and white policemen holding hands) in Kenya, 1973; English influence apparent in Kenyan dress, speech. Interviewer's experience in Nigeria. Subject's farm origins in Dundela (near Morrisburg), home of the Macintosh apple; relation to Maclntoshes through grandmother; plans to attend Queen's made during tight Depression years. Exclusion of women students from Sciences, permitted as options. Interviewer's interest in May Chown; subject's uwc acquaintance with nephew Lorne Pierce's sister.

Pitt, Jean

Powell, Mabel

File consists of a recording of Mabel Powell. Topics of the conversation include residence in family home buiIt by grandfather (1860s). Early widowhood of mother, grandmother; educated mother's successful efforts to further children's education. Father's amiable position as CPR conductor (Prescott to Ottawa) in heyday of travel by rail; strong political appetite, whetted by acquaintance with political passengers. Teaching career adopted by subject, subject's sisters. Moderns and History BA programme (Queen's); outstanding professors Campbell, MacGillivray, Morrison, McNeill. Ambition to attend Queen's Faculty of Education programme, barred by age (under 19); acceptance of mysterious offer from Congregational nuns, Ottawa, to pass time by tutoring final year students, while undertaking personal study of painting, music. Attendance Faculty of Ed.; desire to enrol in BA programme, prompted by envy of student environment. Enrolment with elder sister, supported by mother despite financial drain; living-in, boarding-out arrangements (Brock St.); financial impossibility of post-graduate study. Participation of Queen's students in WWI: enlistment of all eligible men; employment of women knitting, rolling bandages,etc.; feeling that campus women's efforts exceeded those of civilian counterparts. Pressure on men to enIist; sympathy of women for fighting men; shock of death reports, often seemingly immediate. Lack of resentment felt towards WWII; local concern to aid Britain as part of the Empire: absence of pacifism, political objection. Teaching career, 1917-23; enjoyment of Stirling, dislike of Trenton; Trenton as a railway town, breeding children without academic ambition. Application to Goderich Collegiate, employment 1923-53; decision to specialise in French, prompted by principal's abolition of German Dept. preceding WWII; year in Paris, 1936-37, to upgrade qualifications. Conversational French classes (Alliance Française) with cultural outings, Paris: year's study, Sorbonne. Premonitions of war in France; anxiety in both Queen's and Sorbonne situations lest programme be halted because of war. Cultured aspect of Paris boarding house: tapestried living-room, leather-bound library (alice blue with silver embroidery), grand piano played by wife in style of dress attuned to music. Paris trip as subject's first venture abroad, despite frequent travel in Canada; elegant ship travel New York to Paris. Premature retirement to Prescott (1953) to keep company with sister. Affection during school years for classmate Charlotte Whitton; Whitton's assurance of her own intelligence, expectation of tribute to it, as her final undoing; portrait as a strong, aggressive student, resented by some as overbearing.//Whitton's poor behaviour at 50th class reunion, 1967 (previous statement to class committee that as most outstanding graduate, she should lead festivities; defeat in favour of class President; petty annoyance displayed throughout evening); reel of supposedly humorous after-dinner anecdotes, venomously aimed at class members; subject's hurt as victim of 'Catholic' barbs (religious division in Whitton family as perhaps bearing on behaviour), feeling that Charlotte had changed, that this was beneath her. Development of Charlotte's interest in social problems as secretary to local Cabinet member; role as delegate (often chairman) to international committee meetings on children's status, held in Switzerland. Subject's encounter with Greek embassy official in Paris, previously acquainted with Whitton as UN delegate in Switzerland; fascinated assessment of Whitton as 'without doubt the cleverest person I have ever met' regarding constitutional arrangements for children's benefits. Whitton's justified sense of pride, change for the worse in social behaviour: experience as Ottawa mayor, lack of caring domestic relationships, falling-off in close friendships as possible reasons why. Whitton's close friendship (unindentified) with similar personality at Queen's. Subject's fortunate scholarly bent towards teaching; teaching as sole career option at time of graduation.

Powell, Mabel

Wight, Dorothy J.

File consists of a recording of Dorothy Wight. Topics of the conversation include family background in northern Canada, transfer from settlement to settlement. Father's government career, current work with North West Territories Housing Corporation. Liking for isolated settlement life, plans to live and work up north; aim to work with government Finance Dept., door to any career she chooses. Definition of northern settlement status, hamlet status: government, population, types of employment. Appalling state of formal education in NWT; subject as sole university student from her settlement, own exceptional education through Ontario correspondence courses; combined correspondence and regular school­ work. Family plans for subject's university attendance, necessary transfer to western Arctic for schooling beyond Grade 8. Poor quality of teaching. Correspondence course (Economics) from Queen's while awaiting personal readiness to move south, encounter Queen's, Kingston. NWT usual pattern of correspondence courses from Alberta, sudden transfer from settlement population (300) to U.of Alberta student population (30,000). Choice of Queen's based on smaller size, vivid praise of former students (especially geologists). Subject's Ontario correspondence-school background. Mother's New Brunswick origins, clerical training, northern marriage. Subject's social ostracization as daughter of government representative; community jealousy of father's status, authority. Self-reliance, enjoyment of north as open country; appreciation of freedom from social pressures, truly spare time. Opinion that those who set good examples in personal lives do most to stimulate positive social change; mistrust of reformist zeal. Hobbies.//Possibility of theatre company tours up north. Social structure in northern communities: established whites; transient whites; religious older generation of Eskimo; confused younger generation of Eskimo, victims of unfortunate schooling system. Influx of government schools in mid-1950s; hiring through Ottawa of unstable, reformist 'border-line crazies', unsuited to gently revolutionize a Stone Age culture. Teachers' attempts to alienate Eskimo children from parents by mocking native customs; breakdown of Eskimo nomadic lifestyle; pressure to prevent children from speaking Eskimo; helpful missionary work instructing children in syllabics. Ignorant Ottawa statement that Eskimo are largely illiterate (i.e. cannot speak English); near-total literacy rate in own language; subject's tentative desire to learn Eskimo (5 basic languages, hundreds of dialects). Influence of southern immigrants on job situation: recent reverse-discrimination system favouring Eskimo over whites, southern whites over local inhabitants; experience of two white northern males, unable to find work till they applied as southerners 'with significant northern experience'. Assurance of work in own field through scarcity of suitable applicants; plans to consider marriage, children, only after establishing career; school system as deterrent to parental aspirations. Provincial government clampdown restricting Ontario correspondence courses to Ontario residents. Need for stable middle-aged teaching population up north; strong bond between children and home settlements, boarding-school as a non-viable alternative. High proportion of drop-outs, professional high school students; monetary support for serious students. Unlikelihood of reversion to simple life, despite problems of social change: lifestyle of original Eskimo simply too grim.

Wight, Dorothy J.

MacCallum, Elizabeth Pauline

File consists of a recording of Elizabeth MacCallum. Topics of the conversation include birth in Turkey (1895); parents as Congregational missionaries to Turkey, Istanbul. Transfer with family to Kingston; education at KCVI, Queen's University. Teaching in prairie provinces to support education (1915-17); 'glorious' teaching years in Dawson City, Yukon (1919-21). Post­graduate study, Columbia University: political science and history, 1921-22,1924-25. Invitation to join Canadian Dept. of External Affairs during WWII shortage of Officers; status as Principal Clerk, despite Officer's duties; 'just and civilised' conduct of Dept. administrators in permitting temporary war-time staff to sit for Officer's examinations following WWII. Initiation of US Foreign Policy Association Research Dept; employment of subject, recommended by Columbia professors. Political science as a not unusual field for women at Columbia; 'scintillating' quality of women's minds, challenging common room atmosphere. Contrast with Queen's campus during WWI years: then 'we just pushed ourselves through from day to day, doing the things that had to be done.' National Service aspect of prairie teaching assignments; co-operation of teachers in local farm work. Educational programme of Foreign Policy Association: weekly debates of current headline issues by international policy­makers, in participating us cities. Charged atmosphere of debates, precautions taken against violence; attraction for intellectual elite. Participation of Canadian Undersecretary of State Dr. Skelton in debate on Italian fascism. Subject as FPA research writer (1925-31), preparing monographs on current affairs; gratitude for 'ideal' instructions to be un­biased, versed in all points of view. Responsibility for sending monograph draft version to outside readers of opposed convictions for pre-publication criticism; opportunity to help choose, devise topics. FPA open membership, distinguished subscription to monographs, weekly News Bulletin; production of 26 monographs per year by 6-person research staff, highly stimulating 'hard plugging'. Retirement to Uxbridge, Canada (1931); 2-acre market-gardening venture, sustained till exhaustion of funds. Subject's belief that life should be balanced between intellectual and physical activities; alternating pattern of own Iife; invitation from World Peace Foundation (1935) to write Rivalries in Ethiopia. Travelling lectureship based on Ethiopian research; single night's pay ($50) surpassing most lucrative annual market­ gardening income ($40), spent on barrel-sprayer for apples. Dept. of External Affairs work as newspaper-clipping service, research writer (c. WWII). Appreciation of civil servant's protective anonymity: 'It gives you very much greater freedom to do good work if you’re anonymous.' Careers of Dept. associates: educator, diplomat Margaret Meagher (Canada's first woman ambassador);//Dorothy Burwash, 'very very courageous, very very brilliant, very very modest woman'; Agnes Ireland, seriously affected by dust-storm car accident in India. Alison Hardy's article on women's contribution to Dept. of External Affairs (International Perspectives , 1977). Hard-working schedule of Dept. members: retirement habit of dropping in on old colleagues as a form of sabotage, avoided by subject. Subject's posting to Lebanon (1954-56), in charge of opening Canadian legation. Position as technical adviser to Canadian delegations to UN General Assemblies, World Health Assembly; assignment to Canadian Embassy, Athens (1951), writing political dispatches for absent Ambassador. Particulars of Lebanese mission. Diffuse nature of daily work abroad, feeling that matters interrupted each other; preference for concentrated UN activity, where work seems to have immediate bearing. living quarters near University during FPA years, chosen for proximity to International House; Middle Eastern intellectuals' habit of taking coffee with subject before evening study, discussing international affairs. Ideal nature of Dept. of External Affairs work: payment for most desired occupation, permission to specialize in Middle Eastern affairs; all-absorbing intellectual life in contrast with Uxbridge period. Subject's 45-year deaf spell; vital importance of Uxbridge years after constant strain of deafness in New York. Consideration shown by country people to deaf neighbour, not afforded by urban associates. Restoration of hearing by ear operations. Sacrifice of marriage, as strain of conversation would have proved intolerable. Vivid description of deaf conversation as nervous torture, the body 'like a wired grand piano pulled to the utmost " each sound ·like a hammer hitting " everywhere.' Unforgettable 'healing' period in Uxbridge. Improved methods of teaching children to cope with, overcome deafness. Current volunteer service in Ottawa Civic Hospital, preference for geriatric ward; ironic final education in finger-alphabet (for conversation with deaf-mute patient) having omitted to learn it for her own sake. Praise for classmate Charlotte Whitton's able, responsible activity at Queen's and continuing look-out for Queen's women grads in the job market. Subject's current desire to stop writing, start working with people: aim of hospital work to help even old people to realize full potential.

MaCallum, Elizabeth Pauline

MacLeod, Evelyn M., nee Mactavish

File consists of a recording of Evelyn MacLeod. Topics of the conversation include friendship with Jean Royce; shared character as 'book­ pushers'. Interviewer's recent encounter with Mrs. Elizabeth Wallace. Dr. and Mrs. Wallace's careers, Scottish origins; reasons for coming to Canada; renowned hospitality, friendship with subject's family begun in Edmonton (1929). Elizabeth Wallace's literary interests: memorable address to Queen's Faculty Women's Club; original Christmas card story about holly. Early death of Wallace son; Elspeth Wallace. Queen's Faculty Women's Club (originated by Mrs. Wallace c. 1946); character as pleasant meeting-place (not a support body for male faculty); subject's participation. Portrait of Mrs. Wallace by Grant Macdonald. Crowded housing conditions c.1945: widowed subject and daughter saved from houseless situation by Queen's offer of Wardenship (Roselawn Residence). Charming domestic scene of May Chown, Vibert Douglas, anonymous professor readying the residences. Crowded post-war residence conditions: bunkbeds packed into every room, spartan military folding chairs, collapsible dressers, etc.; tiny Warden's rooms without fridge, stove. Wardenship (1946-51 ), LaSalle Barracks women's residence; large veteran population. Male student accommodation; exploitation by greedy, unscrupulous Kingston landladies.//Veteran appreciation of sudden opportunity to attend university; globe-trotting career of Dept. of Veteran Affairs student Ethel Stewart, who 'never got over the awe and mystery and appreciation of the chance to come to college', OVA students' 'mad enthusiasm', predictable number of failures, drop-outs. Marion Robinson, recipient of lODE, Governor General's awards: scholarship student to the Sorbonne, member of Marty Memorial Committee. Female enlistment during WWII as manifestation of Armed Forces fever; female army occupations. Discipline of veteran students as a positive factor in residence life; women residents' sweetness, enthusiasm; Shrove Tuesday pancake party while subject to goods rationing. Alice King's soft-gloved OVA authority with resident students; prominent career with Steinbergs, Canada Packers. OVA medical graduate Jean Zarfas. Friendship between Dr. Wallace and subject's husband in Edmonton. Subject's origins in Parkhill, Ontario. Toronto art school studies in design, 1911-12.//Art school; subject's pleasure in drawing, printwork; minor talent compared with artist grandson David. Parent's agreeability to studies. Semi­serious desire for degree in English literature. Subject's lithography work (c. 1913), interviewer's copy-writing work (c. 1956), both for Eaton's catalogue. Secretarial course, work for Manufacturer's Life, Toronto. Intense desire to see New York; work in New York and Florida. Marriage in Canada; raising family out west. Retained interest in arts: employment as newspaper proofreader, library worker; pleasure writing up and illustrating significant personal memories for own children (charming, almost Dickensian story of kind shopkeeper's tactful reduction of prices to suit innocent children's present-buying purse on Christmas Eve). Oral history compared with text-book history; interviewer's play, abstracted from tale of Crysler's Farm. Awesome number of years spent by teachers acquiring Queen's degrees at summer school. Subject as Warden, Muir House, summer of 1946; ludicrousness of residence restrictions when applied to veterans; termination of wardenship by Queen's loss of LaSalle Barracks property, 1951. Eight-year stint as hotel matron, Deep River; 3 years in Denmark with daughter Chloe; resumption of Queen's career, 1962; post at Ban Righ, terminated by serious illness, 1967.//High spirits, social life in OVA years. Letting up of residence restrictions during 1960s. Reflections on social trend towards greater individual freedom: lack of considerate self-discipline in otherwise splendid young people. Dislike of social sciences jargon, extremes of personal introspection, speeded-up, dehumanized computer age; gratitude she need only face it at a late stage in life, lack of hope for the future. Sense of personal responsibility fostered by Presbyterian upbringing, lost to present generation. Bastardization of the English language; continuing interest of human life despite all.

MacLeod, Evelyn M.

Penwarden, May B., nee Hiscock

File consists of a recording of May Penwarden. Topics of the conversation include Queen's graduation, 1908; teaching career at KCVI, Sydenham High School; marriage to insurance salesman, 1921; stepdaughters. Subject's current age (91), centenarian sister; enjoyment as student, 'full of pep', of skating, dancing; sense of humour as key to longevity. Family history. (Entrance of sister, brief biographical quiz: position as teacher on Wolfe Island, in Cataraqui School, Kingston; marriage to Queen's graduate Presbyterian minister; co­residence with subject.) Subject as oldest living Queen's graduate. Brother as Queen's graduate medical doctor. Winona Stewart. Lack of serious motive for attending Queen's; enjoyment of study, but not for its own sake. Receipt of frequent letters from Queen's, soliciting financial contributions. Easy attitude to widening female career spectrum. Eyesight difficulties, arthritis. Observation that today women meet more often for discussion; formerly, even during wartime, women were separated. Lifelong church involvement; wonder how modern people survive without benefit of clergy.// Subject's lack of feminine, political, self-consciousness while at Queen's; lack of interest in Alumni Society. Memories of teaching, students; Helen Campbell; widow of Principal Wallace, now living with subject in Extendicare. Interviewer's account of Alice Chown, mention of Chown diaries; subject's wonderment at other women's 'branching out', own situation of being 'kept in'. Belief in civic voting; lack of interest, at the time, in women's suffrage movement. Dislike of mentioning Queen's connection in retirement home, for fear of being thought snobbish. Subject as outdoors person; lack of interest in reading. 'Honoration' system of public scholarships: subject's first-year tuition fees awarded by post office nomination, paid by Kingston businessman. Subject's happy family, early desire to marry; age difference between self and husband. Subject as car owner, driver, c. 1925; sister as pioneer woman bicyclist in Kingston. Interviewer's account of Mallorytown, settled by disgraced English persons who had married beneath themselves.

Penwarden, May B.

Roberts, Mabel

File consists of a recording of Mabel Roberts. Topics of the conversation include confusion of subject's sense of time, living in old age home: lack of significant events to mark passage of time; dull, merely routine nature of daily activities. Attendance at Queen's, 1914-17; Hen Coop residence, Clergy St. at Earl. Brockville childhood; father's position as railroad yard foreman. Glass candlestick, brought from Ireland by immigrant grandmother. Family photograph; younger sister's 8-year employment with Mayo Clinic. Mother's frailty. Subject's ambition to teach since childhood; unexpected university entrance, willingly funded by family scarcely able to afford it. Thirty-five year teaching career at collegiate level; position as Head of English Dept., Brockville collegiate. Deeply felt desire to teach; desire for better position, salary, leading to enrolment at Queen's. Subject's current age (86) ; Queen's associates Jessie Dyde, Mabel Powell. Segregation of sexes in Catholic separate school education, instruction of sexes by separate Orders. Shock to subject of 'beautiful' convent's slow obsolescence, renovation as modern condominium. Subject's welcome into co-ed public collegiate, fortunate relations with principal. Absence of tension between Protestants, Catholics. Lack of distinction as continuation school teacher prompting desire for university education. Recent gift of book 'from a student who remembers'. Close friendship with Charlotte Whitton at Queen's; picture of Whitton 'at loose ends' as rooming house student, using subject's residence room as home base. Relations between Kay and Charlotte Whitton; division in family religious upbringing. Summer employment as prairie schoolteacher; love of prairies. Financial responsibility for family since father's early death; support of brother through MD programme at Queen's; lack of funds for travel. Reading habits; dependence on reading to pass time in old age. Appreciation of Dr. Husband's encouragement of study, teaching efforts at Brockvilie Collegiate. Pleasant living conditions, staff, at Fulford Home for the Aged; absence of other Queen's graduates, 'No Queen’s grads have grown old in Brockville.'//Aunt's dressmaking and millinery shop in New York state; mother's pampered role as adored half-sister (photograph), subject's childhood fascination with mother's wardrobe. Parents' generosity, willingness to self-sacrifice for children's needs; encouragement of subject's university ambitions. Courses of life pursued by sisters; subject's lack of temptation to marry, never having met a suitable husband. Satisfaction with past life, desire not to live much longer: acceleration of loneliness once friends have gone. Summer holidays passed pleasantly near Brockville. Majority of female teachers in subject's day; uncontested selection of subject as Dept. Head. Hateful responsibility as elected female officer for keeping women students at Queen's to the 'straight and narrow'. Disappointing class reunion c.1920, lack of interest in reunions since; Queen's lack of prominence in subject's life now; special quality of university life which distinguishes it in the memory of those who have experienced it. Charlotte Whitton's unrestrained sense of humour, warmth of friendship, ignorance of prospects. Interviewer's account of Elizabeth MacCallum. Opinion that the excellence of female students in the 1900s resulted from their being a select few. Friend's opinion that friendship with Whitton reflected ill on subject's social status, respectability. Recollection of Min Gordon.

Roberts, Mabel

Royce, Jean (V: Gordon, 31 October, 1977)

File consists of a recording of Jean Royce. Topics of the conversation include Queen's graduates Jessie and Dorothy Dyde, both graduates of Smith College, both librarians. Powerful Queen's woman librarian Laura Saunders, 'a pillar'; Queen's former librarian to the King of England Mr. Kite, untrained by today's standards but with very special knowledge of books, 'an air of heraldry'. Laura Saunders' sister Elsie (Hilda Laird's replacement at League of Nations Library, Geneva). Laird's appointment to Queen's as 25 year-old Dean of Women, accompanied by pleasant mother ('a very attractive pair'); Alumnae eagerness to make the appointment; exacting nature of residential Dean's work. Subject's graduation from Queen's in 1930, employment at Ontario Ladies' College, Whitby, invitation to assist ailing Queen's Registrar Alice King. Boarding house residence at Queen's, 1925; contrast with formality of residence life in Ban Righ,1927. Approval of period of employment between high school and university, to define one's interests, develop maturity. Subject's love of books, major in English and History; great interest in mediaeval period, thwarted by limitation of Queen's courses to Canadian history; appreciation of Chaucer. Responsibility for religious knowledge classes at Ontario Ladies' College; previous bible study courses at camp, attendance at Queen's Theological classes; 'meaty' lectures of Queen's Theology Principal Kent, very clear and informative, with no opportunity for questioning, discussion; limitations of early lecture methods, seen not as 'a round table for ideas' but as 'a presentation of results of thought'; similarity of Shakespeare courses under George Herbert Clarke (who sold students his lectures in printed form for a nickel each). Compulsory lecture attendance. Summer employment as Queen's student documenting material in basement of Queen's library. Undergraduate employment in Reference Department under Miss Rayson; Rayson's recommendation of subject to Registrar Alice King, 'a good worker - and she's not particularly interested in men'.//Enjoyment of Alice Chown's diary; Chown's nephew, daughter, in Toronto. Disbelief of story that Chown was paid during Depression not to stay in Kingston. Appointment of Dr. McNeill (always lamenting his surrender of teaching) by Queen's A.Y. Chown, fearful that something dreadful would befall unless he was succeeded by Dr. McNeill. Alice Chown's pseudonymous publications. Mrs. Adam Shortt (Smith), early female medical doctor, graduate of Queen's. Interviewer's reflections on Alice Chown's exploration of 'ideas of alternative marriage styles'. Advancement of women during WWI : sobering reflection on social advantages derived from war (can we avoid war?), periods of social guilt followed by periods of atonement; witness to prompt German efforts at post-war reconstruction (1947), necessity for immediate action, no time for regret, reflection. Identification of 12th century as western history's most civilized period; tremendously cultured contributions at present day of women in Switzerland, possibly a peak in history of female civilization; 'Golden Age' of Queen's during 1950s,under Dr. Mackintosh. Vindication of homosexuals as useful citizens during WWI, similar vindication of women; subject's accepting acquaintance with homosexual students at Queen's.

Jean Isabel Royce

Ryan, Kathleen, nee Whitton

File consists of a recording of Kathleen Ryan. Topics of the conversation include interview occasioned by 55th anniversary of CFRC (Canada's First Rugby Club) radio station. CFRC as oldest continuously broadcasting station in Canada, originally run and financed by Queen's students: set-up of Prof. Jemmett's equipment on kitchen table in Fleming Hall; 'CFRC, Queen's University: 100 beautiful watts!'. CFRC as Science men's preserve: Arts men tolerated when programming began; women virtually banned. Expansion, help from Margaret Angus, Student Club, and university. Subject's honorary cutting of cable for CFRC stereo broadcasting, recently introduced. 'When the lceworms Nest Again', classic Canadian song played by CFRC during technical difficulties, also by country music band 'The Happy Wanderers' to serenade opening of Upper Canada Village. CFRC as example of Queen's tradition, 'Go ahead if you're broke, you're still going to come through'. Subject's infiltration of CFRC on arm of male student. Science students' aversion to Economics students' use of Fleming Hall. Major fight between Arts and Science men at entrance to Kingston Hall; voluntary parting of bloody sea allowing Dr. Watson to pass through; subject's belief in healthy brawling as opposed to vindictive physical violence. Children's inability to grasp the import of firearms; bearing of practical use of guns on the ethics of firearms. Subject's fascinated observation of creation of Upper Canada Village; sad fate of outhouse-style coverings for anachronistic firehydrants, removed by authorities. 'Happy Wanderers', Ryans' CFRC band, nucleus of later Family Brown Band, CJOH.CFRA beginnings 31 years ago, purchase of second farm-transmitter site necessitated by 'political skulduggery'; selection of Ottawa site, through 5-year survey, as city with poorest radio service in Canada (private license used by owner as erratic hobby). Mistrust of Ryans as outsiders, interfering with station purchase. Household moves, occasioned by husband's communications career. Subject's original choice of Medicine at Queen's, attracted by status; distressing experience of animal dissection; switch to Economics. Recognition of ambition to make money; triumph in financial deal where buyer assumed he was getting the best of an ignorant lady. Present­day retirement funds, pensions, as questionable investments because of inflation; basis of inflation is paid lack of production (UIC). Younger generation's verbal dependence on cliches. Subject's Florida farm investment (location influenced by price of fuel). Ryan horse stables; switch from saddle-horses to hackneys; 'courage, confirmation, coordination' criteria in hackneys; 'period' affair with carriages (George VI lady's phaeton, Sir Vivian Gooch mail phaeton, Viceroys for show).Subject's rugged conscience with regard to extravagant lifestyle. Forfeited option on historic Billings estate, lost through intention to erect apartment building, townhouses; opposition by city planning board, residents' association. Billings' Georgian colonial home, bought by city unable to maintain it; pioneer cemetery, now degraded for lack of care. Billings' history: Lemira as original Canadian business woman, exemplary accountant. Meeting with residents' association, seen from subject's humorous, indignant, scornful point of view. Involvement in Ontario Heritage Foundation preservation of historic buildings. Ironic preservation of ordinary local homes at expense of priceless Billings 'gem'. Subject's sports interests at Queen's; secretarial work for Prof. Gordon, convenor of immigration for lODE; proofreading work for visiting professor; tutoring work in Political Science, Shakespeare.//Virtue as no guarantee of success; unrewarded devotion of many civiI servants. Unaccountable differences in personal ambition: subject's pursuit of exciting prospects ('this margin fades forever and forever when I move'); nephew's insistence on small-scale comfort. Replacement of powerful radio tower used by Ryans since 1946 by Ryan transmitter (1968), rivalled in Canada only by CN tower but with wider applications. Sale of radio stations, retention of transmitter; foreseen subjection of rival broad­ casters, forced to lease space in Ryan transmitter (advantageous to poorer stations such as Carleton). Cablevision companies; interest in satellite broadcasting, not feasible because of competition. Subject's broadcasting experience: 'What's Your Trouble'. show, with woman psychologist Wasserman; Wassermans as German refugees, husband's excellent novels. Enjoyment of 'Farmer's Notebook' report, given something to talk about; hatred of fabricating useless copy; preference for brevity, under 12-minute broadcasting. Editorial manipulation of hot-line shows. Family background: 4 of 8 siblings died young; notorious Canadian infant mortality rate c. 1919, connected with lack of physical confirmation between Celts and Gaels. Liking for Catholicism: Irish-Catholic mother; Catholic husband; lovely experience of convent schooling (Renfrew County). Emphasis on clothing in schools; interviewer's memory of 'Kitten sweater' Toronto snobbery; psychological implications of blue-jean trend. Positive sartorial impression made by men at current Convocation, in contrast with feminine impact. Hard prospects for today's graduates. Views on Canadian unity: no need to preserve French-English Canadian unity, which has never existed; no need to reduce a country to its weakest link. Notion of two founding races 'a damned bit of nonsense'. Goyer's 'French commonwealth'; politicians' insidious desire for French supremacy; expectation of increased difficulty, violence. Injustice of Quebec-Ontario industrial relations, Quebec licensing restrictions. Advantage taken of bulk-restricted Ontario milk shippers by infiltrating Quebec merchants. Dr. Deutsch's comment (Class of '26 Reunion) that 1926 graduates remain unsurpassed; subject's corroborating list of outstanding women (Olive Zeron, Jean Simmons, Marie Stock, Mary Rowland, Frances MacCallum, Janie Anderson, Margaret Guthrie). Reid MacCallum as outstanding Professor of Philosophy.

Ryan, Kathleen

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